• authored by FatTony
  • published Thu, Aug 14, 2003


This problem we have right now is the unions fualt if they had stood strong in 97. Never let the clerk 2s come in this wouldnt have happened. Now we on a tight rope at the point where half the members dont care or they are two stupid to see whats right in front of them. In 5 years we could all be screwed. And 97 is the why.

  • posted by sofslave
  • Wed, Aug 13, 2003 10:24pm

you can blame the union for 97 all you want, but the members voted yes then. too bad they were all so short sighted that they didn't see this coming, or care.
and at 53.1%, the union has the company right where they want them, in their back pocket!

  • posted by edelio
  • Wed, Aug 13, 2003 11:18pm

Sorry,,off topic,, but try this link...

  • posted by Slaveway Dave
  • Wed, Aug 13, 2003 11:24pm

Its not like in 97 we had any time to look at the agreement before we voted on it.

  • posted by T S
  • Thu, Aug 14, 2003 7:48am

POINT YOUR FINGER straight at the save on foods employees. They the ones that CAVED in 97. ANd Now Ivan an brooke want the safeway employees to carry the banner into battle in 04 and fight to regain everything sold down the river by the spineless, ( who now are going to keep working and hide behind a ME TOO clause)
Hope the ufcw is noticing that the lower end bottom rung employeee's do not give a shit what they tell them to vote. the race for dues has made the machine un controllable un reliable and un predictable, the RWU ran into this at EV told them to turn down the offer yet 25 PT students thought they knew better. they managed to turn 250 decent paying jobs into 500 PT low end mc jobs that now threaten to destabilize the whole grocery warehousing business. woo hoo Union foresightedness, ya pin heads really didnt see this coming did you ?. how many 8$hr employees have been able to bank up the funds needed to sustain a strike of more than 1 day ????? my guess is .0001 %.

  • posted by weiser
  • Thu, Aug 14, 2003 8:03am

The UFCW manouvered this one. By taking it back and back again, the people got worn down. They told the employer that all it needs for a deal is to please about 2% more employees and that would happen immediately with a lock out.

The UFCW also avoided having to strike Safeway. Because the International won't fund or authorize a strike with less than a 66.6% mandate.

  • posted by siggy
  • Thu, Aug 14, 2003 8:38am

The '97 fiasco was by design. For anyone who remembers how the entire negotiations and ratification was manipulated ...

Tho the Save-on agreement wasn't up until April '97, the ratification was held in August '96 long before Safeway. The ratification meetings were something from hell. The employers' threat of store closures was given lip service by machine reps at the ratification meetings. Even tho threats of closures are illegal the machine had no problem using them to speed up the meetings. It's a no brainer that most will fold if threathened with job loss, that is pro'lly the reason it's illegal. It is an unfair bargaining tactic yet the union used it.

Members at the OFG ratification meetings were told that the employer had to have these concessions now or else. tume was of the essence they said. The agreement was not registered at the labour board until March 31st of '97, full nine months after the ratification but prior to taking the same concessions to safeway members.

Remember that in B.C. safeway always bargained first but not in '96, ufcw 1518 brought these concessions to a greener less radical ofg membership. Why did the union bring the '96 concessions to save-on members first?

The entire '96 concessions were by machine and employer design with a calculated result that went over without much of a hitch and it had nothing but nothing to do with what was good for the membership.

The anger over the concessions should be pointed at the machine that set the trap, not at the members who fell into it, divided we fall.

  • posted by T S
  • Thu, Aug 14, 2003 9:52am

You made my point . the SOF employee's bent over and screwed the rest a'la 777. THAT ivan and brooke handed out the bend over manual , is really irrelevant. do I Have a grudge against SOF employee's , probbly the disrespect and NON support showed me as I leafletted, the snickers and laughs of the 8$ clowns who told me I am Not a sof employee and never was, perhaps this has hardened me against them, who knows , I know of a Handful of SOF employees who stood with us, they still have my respect. the rest well what goes around Comes around. the SOF employees have never really been a UNION just a dues club for the UFCW, they rode safeways backs for 25 years and when it came time to stand up they crumbled like a house of cards, AND now that UFCW has suceessfully erodeded the back bone of it s strength the stand up and fight FT safeway employees to A piddly 25% of the work force, they have a machine that is no longer controlled by its head! but with its stomachs, Miss a meal and and the whole thing breaks down

  • posted by siggy
  • Thu, Aug 14, 2003 10:06am


what goes around Comes around

TS you couldn't be more correct, but what goes around once can go around again and most certainly comes around again and again. I see no advantage to grudge holding against workers who only do what they know, but I do see value in contributing to making sure those who weren't part and don't remember or understand the concession scam are informed.

Only those who were there, who know, can be responsible for that change, the ones who got burned have the most responsibility to make sure it doesn't go around again. What are you doing to make sure your children or grandchildren don't have to eat table scraps?

  • posted by remote viewer
  • Thu, Aug 14, 2003 10:34am

I think that you have to be careful before laying the blame for "yes" votes on lousy contracts at the feet of the members who voted. This just validates what the machine heads do to wash their hands of lousy deals: "Oh well, the members voted for it. I must be what they wanted".

Voting under circumstances where you don't fully understand what you're voting for or its long term implications, or where you haven't been given sufficient information to make an informed choice, or where the tentative agreement is presented as something that you must vote for, or where the agreement is presented as "the best we can do" (although this may not be so) isn't meaningful voting.

A lot of dictators like having their subjects vote on things as well. The outcome is pre-determined (nothing other than what the dictator wants will be permitted to happen). The outcome, however, is not an expression of the subjects' true wishes and doesn't make the dictator a democrat.

  • posted by <Larry>
  • Thu, Aug 14, 2003 1:09pm

'the SOF employees have never really been a UNION just a dues club for the UFCW, they rode safeways backs for 25 years and when it came time to stand up they crumbled like a house of cards, '

damn sad, but true. I believe that one of the major failures of ufcw is the fact this hasnt changed. This isnt old news, this is something the locals should be addressing with both Save On and RCSS. Maybe instead of offering free classes on wine tasting or feng shui they should be offering classes on negotiating tactics, contract interpretations, labour laws,union history, organizing techniques. If anything these classes should be provided for shop stewards at no cost if not actually offered some kind of stipend.

An informed membership is a strong membership.

  • posted by T S
  • Fri, Aug 15, 2003 10:27am

This is from the Safeway negotiations home page...


August 14, 2003
B.C. FINAL OFFER Voting Results

UFCW Local 1518 advised SAFEWAY that 53.1% or 1216 of 2290 employees voted to reject the FINAL OFFER from the total of

2426 employees or 51.0% DID NOT VOTE
1216 employees or 53.1% VOTED TO REJECT
1074 employees or 46.9% VOTED TO ACCEPT
As a result, only 1216 or 25.8% of the employees could put all 4716 SAFEWAY employees ON STRIKE!

Does this make any sense to you?
You should raise your concerns to the union!

wow 51% could NOT even give the time of day to put an X on the paper. That says UNION to me. The UFCW should just fold tent and quietly walk out of town. theire are 2426 people who probably still dont even know who brooke and Ivan are never mind wich Union they are in. 1200 people are trying to decide the fate of 15,000 grocery employees, oh ya right their is the 4 teir system 2 zone teirs, and the 2 WAGE teirs (makein enough to live 21$ 25% or 8$ mc jobs 75%), then the ME too save on employees with the Brooke and Ivans payback to their sweethearts( OFG warehouse ?what OFG warehouse? OFG had a warehouse?) No strike No lock out deal riding coat tails.
Truly embarrassing! BROOKE STEP DOWN do the right thing, you are the author of this mess HOW do you sleep at night? You successfully allowed A once strong Union to wither and DIE under your stewardship. Every contract was concessionary Under your direction. You are a cancer! And cancer need to be CUT out.

  • posted by siggy
  • Fri, Aug 15, 2003 1:26pm

Jes a little union disease update. Over at ufcw 1518 they often refer to the *Sunday After Ratification* = SARs.

In light of all that is sick about brooke and ivan's non dispute, how prophetic is that eh.

  • posted by <yankeebythewater>
  • Fri, Aug 15, 2003 5:45pm

Remember all this UFCW banter when any other elections are called. As the way of any executive union works, you get your people in there as fast as can, it worked for whom?

The union rank and file, not only walks softly on the hearts on their executives - but seems to me in any rank and file, they are walking softly - I just do not understand why this is permitted - by you, the rank and file? Throughout, I have seen the membership bitch and complain, today I do not see the rank and file hollerin'?

And, I want to know why all the union membership sits back in some land of the brave and free - watches, sits very tight, - and does absolutely nothing about it!

I tell ya - if this bs was going on years ago, they'd a placed a picket sign upon the establishment. Yes, even ~one~ person can do that.

Some of you UFCW members might want to think about one lone picket sign - you can and will bring down your union - sure, you will pay the price - quite obvious - there are not rank and file members true enough to strike their own union or support any member, right?

I do not belong to any union, nor affiliated with. I just know wrong from right, I know corruption when it slaps people in the face, they take that slap, and are willing to be beaten to the point the point of no return.

It is time, that the membership rise up - you best tell your rank and file what happened when unions DID NOT have a membership, how hard it was on everyone, but they came together, the workers, the wives, the children. And, they found A UNION!

Can the membership as we know it today, of any union, actually bring it around to 'unite' or is the membership actually waiting for pigs to fly

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